Women Continue to Want Marriage, But Men are Saying No

Great article found here. So great that I am reposting the entire piece below with my comments mixed in:

From Suzanne Venker:

The battle of the sexes is alive and well. According to Pew Research Center, the share of women ages eighteen to thirty-four that say having a successful marriage is one of the most important things in their lives rose nine percentage points since 1997 – from 28 percent to 37 percent. For men, the opposite occurred. The share voicing this opinion dropped, from 35 percent to 29 percent.

Believe it or not, modern women want to get married. Trouble is, men don’t.

Cause, meet effect. Modern women are the cause and men are choosing not to marry, the effect. Mind you, its not just women as women in the traditional sense, but “modern women”, who by my own observations probably count for 9 out of 10 women I come across.  This is probably a good time to clarify how I see the difference between a “modern woman” and a feminist (as I realize it can be confusing). Broadly speaking, there is no difference.  Technically, there is. Fewer and fewer women are identifying with feminism as it has become a loaded term, but that does not mean they are  free from feminist ideas or have not been molded by a feminist driven culture; therefore, I find the term “modern women” as more inclusive to include any woman who is motivated by wordliness, trends, pop culture, opinions of the sisterhood, etc.  If I strictly referred to ‘feminists’ when writing, it would miss the largest, most important, and even dangerous segment of women–those who are feminists, but don’t realize it.

The so-called dearth of good men (read: marriageable men) has been a hot subject in the media as of late. Much of the coverage has been in response to the fact that for the first time in history, women have become the majority of the U.S. workforce. They’re also getting most of the college degrees. The problem? This new phenomenon has changed the dance between men and women.

As the author of three books on the American family and its intersection with pop culture, I’ve spent thirteen years examining social agendas as they pertain to sex, parenting, and gender roles. During this time, I’ve spoken with hundreds, if not thousands, of men and women. And in doing so, I’ve accidentally stumbled upon a subculture of men who’ve told me, in no uncertain terms, that they’re never getting married. When I ask them why, the answer is always the same.

Women aren’t women anymore.

To say gender relations have changed dramatically is an understatement. Ever since the sexual revolution, there has been a profound overhaul in the way men and women interact. Men haven’t changed much – they had no revolution that demanded it – but women have changed dramatically.

In a nutshell, women are angry. They’re also defensive, though often unknowingly. That’s because they’ve been raised to think of men as the enemy. Armed with this new attitude, women pushed men off their pedestal (women had their own pedestal, but feminists convinced them otherwise) and climbed up to take what they were taught to believe was rightfully theirs.

Now the men have nowhere to go.

It is precisely this dynamic – women good/men bad – that has destroyed the relationship between the sexes. Yet somehow, men are still to blame when love goes awry. Heck, men have been to blame since feminists first took to the streets in the 1970s.

But what if the dearth of good men, and ongoing battle of the sexes, is – hold on to your seats – women’s fault?

You’ll never hear that in the media. All the articles and books (and television programs, for that matter) put women front and center, while men and children sit in the back seat. But after decades of browbeating the American male, men are tired. Tired of being told there’s something fundamentally wrong with them. Tired of being told that if women aren’t happy, it’s men’s fault.

Rightfully so, and this is why I support the MGTOW movement and understand when men do not see marriage as a personal goal or a moral duty.

Contrary to what feminists like Hanna Rosin, author of The End of Men, say, the so-called rise of women has not threatened men. It has pissed them off. It has also undermined their ability to become self-sufficient in the hopes of someday supporting a family. Men want to love women, not compete with them.

I like how she is very clear –“it has pissed them off” and suggests men have good reason to feel that way.

“They want to provide for and protect their families – it’s in their DNA. But modern women won’t let them.”

This is how men haven’t changed. There hasn’t been a movement (until recently) that convinces or reassures men to shrug off their instincts as there was for women. For the record, I don’t think it is good thing that men or women are straying from their roles, but what I think or feel doesn’t matter–reality matters and in reality causes have effects.  Modern women cannot tip the scales between the sexes and expect there to be no consequences.

Interestingly enough, women are the ones who see marriage as being important, yet I think what is key is that it is marriage as defined by them and on their terms, which is not a marriage where men primarily provide and protect. They have a ‘brave new world’ vision of marriage or ‘marriage 2.0′ and it does not mesh with the ‘marriage 1.0′ vision that most men grew up picturing.  Marriage is a relative term and is no longer an institution with expected behaviors and guideline to follow. I’d like to suggest a good question for a man to ask a woman is –“what does marriage mean to you”?  However, the problem with that is you only get an answer of what marriage means to that woman at that particular instance in time.  With the flux of woman’s emotions and the tendency to follow sisterhood think, her views on marriage can change the day after the wedding, two years after the wedding, or 10 years and 2 children after the wedding.

It’s all so unfortunate – for women, not men. Feminism serves men very well: they can have sex at hello and even live with their girlfriends with no responsibilities whatsoever.

It’s the women who lose. Not only are they saddled with the consequences of sex, by dismissing male nature they’re forever seeking a balanced life. The fact is, women need men’s linear career goals – they need men to pick up the slack at the office – in order to live the balanced life they seek.

So if men today are slackers, and if they’re retreating from marriage en masse, women should look in the mirror and ask themselves what role they’ve played to bring about this transformation.

Here is the response I suspect will occur—“it wasn’t me”! ( a variant of NAWALT or Not All Women Are Like That). Then this–“it was the radical feminists with their man hating messages that screwed things up, I’m not like that, so what role have I played?”   So, the solution for today’s modern women is to do nothing, rather than try to change the negative view of women.  Doing nothing is playing a role.

Fortunately, there is good news: women have the power to turn everything around. All they have to do is surrender to their nature – their femininity – and let men surrender to theirs.

If they do, marriageable men will come out of the woodwork.

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  1. Oh goodie. Maybe she has a legal aged daughter she would like to throw in. One call to Maury and they could have a free trip to Chicago.

  2. “Fewer and fewer women are identifying with feminism as it has become a loaded term, but that does not mean they are free from feminist ideas or have not been molded by a feminist driven culture; therefore, I find the term “modern women” as more inclusive to include any woman who is motivated by wordliness, trends, pop culture, opinions of the sisterhood, etc. If I strictly referred to ‘feminists’ when writing, it would miss the largest, most important, and even dangerous segment of women–those who are feminists, but don’t realize it.”

    You are so absolutely correct! It was Venker who wrote in her book on feminism that “it’s in the air.” Our society has been so infused with sisterhood whining for 50 years that we accept it like the sun rising in the east. There is no escaping it.

  3. Ally,

    Hope I’m not too late to reply to your original inquiry about asking what it means for “women to be women nowadays”. In response to your question, I want to first say that my response is based upon my Christian faith. So it should be taken as such, not meant to be advice for a secular audience, though it could certainly apply but without the faith and patience of our Heavenly Father, it would be very difficult to place into practice.

    Proverbs 31 is an excellent model that ascribes the noble and practical attributes that a mature women ought to be in order to lead a productive and content life and to be successful in family and love. I must, however, critize your conjecture that Proverbs 31 was a “successful, confident businesswoman”. There is an image that is often portrayed when that phrase is put out there and that is PRECISELY the type of woman that is warned against in the Bible. What I mean is that it is all about the nature and attitude of the heart. The Proverbs 31 derived her “confidence” in her faith in God. She was not proud, boisterous, and vain in her faith-based confidence, she was humbled by the presence of a powerful yet personal God guiding her with grace yet discipline and justice. Therefore, on the outside it would appear as though she is on top of things, but in fact those who have an “eye to see” would really see that she is indeed a humble creature who is protected and supported by a loving husband and a faithful God. The modern “confidence, strong businesswoman” is the complete antithesis of such an image. Her confidence is based on earthly skills that she may possess for a season but it is all empty and vain and the only way that such a confidence or image of such can be maintained is through the denigration and demoralization of people around her, regardless of how it is done or whether it is done openly or within the heart. In my experience, “girl or grrwwl power” is no different than “white power” that I have grown accostumed to living in the Deep South. At least how it is executed in public, it shows no difference other than those who practice are insulated from reprisals due to a now antiquated belief in “not hitting or hating girls”.

    As well, her “business” was that centered around God and family. It was not based on being some cubicle drone who would dutifully serve another so that she could get a sense of “accomplishment” and then rag to her friends over Cosmo’s about how hard work is and how she’s not truly appreciated for how much she does. I have a job in aerospace engineering (read rocket science cause that is exactly what it is) and it is both challenging and rewarding but my greatest joy, contribution to the world and crowning achievement is my marriage to my wife and young but brilliant son. My wife sacrificed her “career” and she’s never felt more accomplished than raising our beautiful son. Her time managment skills and her industriousness make even the most educated MBA’s in my company look like total rodeo clowns. By the way, she didn’t develop those qualities in her work, but she adapted when she had our son, so you can save the whole corporate BS about how careers make women better mom’s, cause in many cases, they don’t. But she doesn’t boast in such trivialities, she boasts in what God has done in her life, how much I love and care for her, and how blessed she is to have me and our son. Such a woman displays a faith-based confidence that is both sincere and encouraging to others. Such a confidence is what many strive for, but cannot find for it ironically requires ABANDONMENT OF SELF.

    In regards to the “egalitarian” model of marriage, there is a fundamental flaw that needs to be addressed or it will always be a point of contention and ultimately disunity. I have always believed in equality under the law for men and women. Equal opportunities for all. However, in marriage, since it is a unique union, when critical decisions need to be made and neither party can agree upon a solution and it is a “yes/no” or “go/no go” type of decision, there has to be an overriding veto. Cause when one votes for one side, and the other the other side, you don’t have any type of quorum and often times not making a decision is the same as a “no” in which case, by default, someone will always end up making that decision. These are situations when a mutual compromise is not possible due to the nature of the choice being made, such as in relocating for one’s career. The real question is…who has the overriding veto, TO BE USED WHEN ALL OTHER OPTIONS HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED? It’s how our entire government runs, and yet, through the advent of feminism, MANY women feel like it’s their way or the highway. Nothing about that will lead to any long-term resolutions or unity. I have friends who are married and in which the wife wears the pants, and in ALL of them, the wife is discontent because she claims that the husband is not ambitious enough to take responsibility. Leadership and responsibility go hand-in-hand. Demanding someone be responsible but giving them no discretion to execute authority to properly discharge such a responsibility is self-defeating, yet I dare not mention that to the wives for that would wound their frail emotional proclivities. If you want to be strong, then be strong. Yield not to emotion but to logic when it comes to criticism and you will be forever remembered for your grace and decorum and instead of your moxie and vain pride – case in point, your recent bouts of arguments with Ricorist.

    Frankly, the one and only thing that needs adjusting is the whole pride issue, and ironically it is that which is centralized to our separation from God. I’ve been a silent observer on the manosphere long enough that the only thing keeping modern women from true growth and maturity is pride, which comes right before their collective fall, which, if you’re not paying attention, is starting to happen. Anger is a justified emotional response to injustices and sins caused by others. What we do with that anger is in the realm of our sole judicial discretion. By the way, there’s more financial and corporate “raping and selling” that happens in the office and in business than you can imagine, so simply displacing a husband for a corporate manager will not fully insulate you from the threat of “rape or selling” as that is what the corporate infrastructure is based off of, it’s simply made more acceptable and far more subtle as the office boss is seen as a professional and the loud husband as a loser and criminal.

    Now before you breath fire and brimestone upon me, do make a mental note that nothing in my response was directed as a slur personally against you. So I would appreciate the same grace returned, should you elect to respond back. Perhaps at one time, feminism was an encouraging thought for those who were truly downtrodden, but now it is more and more a power play and a move for complete hegemony of resources, time, and labor. The greatest gift outside of God’s mercy was that my wife didn’t drink this poison when she was young, and yet, in a strictly objective and professional sense, run circles around her “proud, empowered ‘professional'” counterparts.

  4. Laura,

    It is an pleasure and honor. I usually don’t respond and just remain a silent observer. But in this case, I had to say my peace because this was becoming too much. Thanks for the chance of voicing my thoughts.



  5. “These are situations when a mutual compromise is not possible due to the nature of the choice being made, such as in relocating for one’s career.”

    There’s another fundamental flaw: assuming the same person must always have the veto vote, and that it must be male. That’s not truly a union. I’m glad you are in general such a well-balanced man.

  6. Caught your comment YBM. LOL, having something against rich men. Sorry if my comment seemed jeering, it was honestly surprised (I wouldn’t jeer at Rigorist in any case, he knows I respect him); I in fact am looking for work, in between other things, and the longest comment thread directed at me took a couple of days before it got really inflated; whoever it was you’re arguing with should be honored to earn so much of your time.

    Wow Laura, top commenter? Rigorist, good work, it’ll be a while yet before I share my crown.

  7. Jen,

    If you know your Bible at all, then you’ll know that the husband has veto power in the marriage-end of story. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with God…


  8. The Bible never mentions veto power or overrule, Mark, in either marriage or church; only government and child-raising, which the former two institutions have been shamefully made to resemble.

  9. Apologies for the delay, folks – I was busy “offering the token gift of my vagina” at work ;)

    Crimson Viceroy – I appreciate both your comments and the fact that they are quite evidently genuine. We approach the topic from very different angles, but I respect your opinion, and it’s clear you’re in a happy marriage, which is reflected in the respect with which you approach your wife. As Jennifer aptly pointed out, however, the question of who should hold veto power still stands. I’d say that in a marriage, the good of the family should be of primary concern, and veto power would very much depend on that issue. I generally dislike the concept of veto power when applied to a marriage, though, since to me, marriage is supposed to be a partnership built on compromise. In any case, thank you!

    Thanatos – we meet again! Since I do not have any means of tracking your whereabouts, rest assured that I did not “wait” for your departure – in fact, I was certain you were still lurking around.

    “For instance, it is true that you have not lived a single second of your life as a man and have no right to demand anything of them besides the natural right to your own bodily integrity and/or property. Since this is not endangered by any opponent of feminism,or any organization that has as its aim the advancement of male interests, you have no basis whereby to entreat,demand,ask or cajole anything from any man here or elsewhere.”

    – Well, let’s be fair here – both on Sunshinemary’s blog and elsewhere, it has been argued time and again that women should ideally not be allowed to say “no” to a man, particularly in the context of sex. Demanding acquiescence to all sexual demands violates one’s natural right to bodily integrity, does it not?

    I fear I haven’t made myself clear enough – when I argue for respect, common decency, and general calm in dealing with women on the part of the “manosphere”, I argue from a gender-blind, humanistic standpoint, meaning that women, as people, have the right to demand respect from men, who are also people, because people should respect other people writ large. Fret not, though – I make enough to support myself very comfortably and would never dream of demanding a man’s money, if that’s the next issue you were going to raise. It goes against my core beliefs and plays into why I don’t find a prenup to be anything atrocious – I would very much like to protect myself and my assets in the event of a catastrophic occurrence.

    Now, regarding the letter from the LA-based lawyer cited above, there are several things I’d like to point out, and I’ll do my best to avoid screaming bloody murder over this guy’s blinding racism (yes, black people do get laid, imagine that! here we were thinking they still had to sit at the back of the bus! my my, what has the world come to?!). He starts off by listing how much he makes, how often he goes to the gym, what he eats, and what he drives. That’s all adorable, but none of that can ever make up for a lack of conversational interest, hobbies, social skills, or an ability to connect with other people. That’s the one thing he’s apparently missed in his 32 years on this planet – those tattooed rocker guys he hated so much in college likely possessed all of those qualities, regardless of how much less intelligent or capable they may have been. His entire comment reads like a description of an attempt to compensate for being turned down by girls he really liked – “look at me! I have (some) money! Take that, you dirty bitches!”. Again, adorable, but ultimately completely beside the point (speaking exclusively for myself, if I met a guy who spent $900 on dietary supplements a month, I’d run for the hills, and I’m a teen-athlete-turned-gym-rat). We’ve all been turned down, we’ve all been rejected, we’ve all liked somebody only to have them go for a (seemingly) less attractive, less intelligent, less whatever else person, and sure, it hurt. And then we built a bridge and got over it! Because ultimately, the one thing people never tell you is that human attraction does not abide by common sense or the laws of physics or rhyme or reason. It just happens. Call it fate, chemistry, pheromones, the work of God, whatever – there’s no use in becoming a sore bitter loser by the ripe old age of 32, you’re not hurting anyone but yourself. Maybe it’s the 7th Heaven upbringing that’s preventing him from understanding this, I don’t know.

    Michael’s other problem is that he describes every single girl in that comment as a set of physical traits – e.g., “a young thin super sexy blonde with curves in all the right places”. People are more valuable than the sum of their physical characteristics, and they can tell when you can’t acknowledge that. My boyfriend is an exceptionally handsome young man, but it’s his selflessness and generosity and heart of gold I value most, and it’s what I always lead with whenever I describe him to others. Oh, and Michael’s add-on of “who BTW refused to date me even though we were friends” also speaks volumes – it sounds like he just lacks the social skills and social savvy to understand that attraction is based on much more than just friendship. I applaud Michael’s career success, but until he develops more of a social presence, he’ll keep losing girls to the banged up tattooed wannabe rockstars he detests so much.

  10. So many words, so little said.

    So how do you decide who has veto power for what? Have a discussion every time? How ludicrous. This is just egalitarianism again, which always defaults to femDOM.

    If the man doesn’t have veto power, then she will always let her emotions dictate and will withhold in order to get her way. If the man withholds she will say it is not fair and will demand from him. Her idea of a compromise is not based on justice, but in getting her way.

    You guys are wasting your time with these demons. “Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you” is pretty clear to anyone with 2nd grade reading skills but the hamster can get around anything.

  11. “Phil | November 25, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    One feminist, Ally, takes over an entire thread because men feel they MUST respond to her. Ally is a feminist-she will always be a feminist and will never change. Nothing that a male commentator writes will change her position. But the male commentators still can’t resist to urge to respond. If the male commentators didn’t respond to Ally, she would not have taken over the comments section. But no, the whole comments section is overrun with men who feel they MUST respond to the feminist.”

    Thank you, Phil. I wonder why that is? “Everyone knows” that all women think everything is “about them” and they color and see everything that is said through the lens of “me”. So why does everyone respond to it? I don’t get it, but this is something I’d really like to understand.

  12. As a reformed and reforming feminist I have to thank my lucky stars after reading articles like this that my husband saw through me well enough to see the person I could be. After 15 years our marriage is stronger and better than ever and he feels like more of a man than he ever has. Feminism is a lie. Women can still be respected, have a great career and develop themselves intellectually and yet balance that with respecting and deferring to her husband in all significant and important ways. Life is just so much better that way – for everyone.

  13. Ally,

    There are a few fallacies that I must point out in your assessment of Michael as he presents himself and his story. First off, I’m giving him the same latitude as I gave you, that I am going to take him on his word that he’s being forthcoming about all this. As such, to develop the qualities that he has…disciplined physical fitness, strong business sense, and a balanced work/life are all qualities that are attractive no matter what culture you are in. And he said that he spent $700-900 on organic food AND supplements. That’s about standard for the cost of food over in LA, ESPECIALLY organic food as it is about 1.3x the cost of regular groceries, and that is about what I used to spend when I was single, so that is a dead-end argument right there in regards to your rejection of him simply based on “running for the hills” on someone who “spends $900 a month on supplements”. Please read the entire dialogue as presented before ripping someone a new one.

    Secondly, if he has a successful practice, and raking in that much in LA, it requires a LOT of finesse and skill, he would have had to have those social skills you speak of. Lawyers are notorious for being EXCELLENT salesmen because they have to sell their client to the judge and jury to win the case. They have to negotiate and they have to do lunches and dinners to win over clients and network with people. He couldn’t maintain his lifestyle without having such skills. Of course we are talking about professional, but in this world the political and the professional become the personal. Having discussions of depth or even social savvy and maintaining a key interest in someone are prerequisites to a successful practice, as well as pretty much any career outside of working in an Alaskan guard post. Simply because he stated his income doesn’t really mean anything. I can’t tell you how many times women have complained to me that they are sick and tired of their dates asking their bust size, but they have no problem in inquiring about their income, so Michael simply elected to be forthcoming with his income. It wasn’t a point of envy because the poor chap can’t really share his life with someone special and that is why I don’t envy him, therefore I don’t see him placing his monetary value as a sign of “holier-than-thou” moxie.

    Also, you give his “young ladies” FAR too much credit in their selection criteria. “Young tattooed rocker guys” is your definition of someone who has hobbies and social skills and are of keen interest? Really? Half of these guys are usually on some kind of narcotics and their mumblings are no more coherent than that of a 2-year old, and that is your measure of social savvy? Sorry, but that is a rather weak argument. As to the entire mystical “attraction, chemistry” nonsense, I must say that this is something that truly gets under my skin. There is a sense of mystery about it, but we put far too much emphasis on it and not on the actual maturation process that EVERYONE needs to go thru. You chide him for having poor selection bias because of the physical features that he subscribes to, but then you give the young ladies a free pass to do what they will when they choose the boneheads. Sorry, but that’s unfair and hypocritical at the same time.

    His entire monologue was a lamentation to where he is at in life. He found a space where he could say his peace and he has said it. Unlike women who keep on and on how men are scum and “only want one thing” whenever men have a healthy level of criticism and judgement for past sins that women have collectively committed, they have to somehow just “build a bridge” and “get over it”. Where is the grace that is extended to them to release their emotional frustration and a sympathetic ear to hear? Christian or not, such qualities are HUMAN qualities, and can be cultivated. However, it’s been my experience that many women grow older throughout the years, but they refuse to grow UP.

    As for his “racial” remarks, the same could be said about women too. I have an interracial marriage, and let me tell you, I get the harshest damnation and dirtiest looks from women, NOT men. Most men are in awe as to how my wife treats me and the dynamics that play out. I don’t boast about it, but I can tell from their general inquisitiveness about my wife that I have found something they are looking for. Which is EXACTLY why Michael posted at Dalrock’s because as Dalrock says on his blog, he is a happily married man in a post-feminist world. Just as you give women free reign to act upon those mystical feelings of “attraction, chemistry, or fate” you condemn men for the same proclivities. Perhaps you should practice a bit of proper judgement before you tear into someone, unless you are going to equally tear into the opposing party as well.


    Crimson Viceroy

  14. Mina,

    The reason we spend time arguing is because it is a rare chance at open dialogue with those who are truly ignorant to both sides of the discussion. I know, it is a vain hope, but we humans are creatures that live on faith and hope so we persist. Because it is also for those who come in and read but are silent observers. It is educational to the rest of the audience to see exactly how narrow-minded feminism truly is, or at least its current manifestation. Stick around, I’m sure this will get better or end abruptly.


    Crimson Viceroy

  15. Guys, stop being tingle generators for feminists. You are rewarding their behaviour. Ally is getting major rewards here, especially with the harsh tones used by The Rigorist – why, it’s like a verbal spanking!

    By all means, if you want to provide free orgasms for demons, go ahead, but you are sullying yourselves. She doesn’t want to learn anything and she betrays her Jezebel spirit in her thinly veiled nastiness.

  16. @CL

    I gave you tingles?

    This is the first substantive objection I have heard to my tone: that my opponent enjoys it. I will – and I am not being ironic nor sarcastic – consider this carefully.

    Actually, as Ally hasn’t *been* back, I doubt your assertion but I’ll make adjustments to my delivery to be sure.

  17. “Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you”

    Yes, a clear prediction of a disaster from the coming fall. That’s not a command, it’s a description.

    “So how do you decide who has veto power for what?”

    Spheres of authority are a good idea, and I doubt lengthy discussion is necessary for everything.

    “If the man doesn’t have veto power, then she will always let her emotions dictate and will withhold in order to get her way. If the man withholds she will say it is not fair and will demand from him. Her idea of a compromise is not based on justice, but in getting her way.”

    A very typical dismissal of the woman with an inaccurate mass grouping.

  18. @The Rigorist


    I gave you tingles?

    I thought you might think that but no, I’m afraid not. But you know how these feminists are – you must have heard about Jennifer’s tangle with TFH at Dalrock’s. Ally hasn’t been back because you satisfied (for now) her need for a sound spanking.

    I was not objecting to your tone, but saying that you were being used by a woman by letting her frame the issue. You have been on the defensive the whole time and that is not attractive to women, who viscerally feel that to be supplication, which results in contempt for the man while they delight and get temporary tingles due to the initial success of their empowerment. In an intimate relationship, such a woman will tire of that man and the contempt will be profusely exhibited.

    Hope that helps! lol


    A very typical dismissal of the woman with an inaccurate mass grouping.

    What on earth does that mean? Sounds like a typical dismissal of a woman who doesn’t have a substantive response.

  19. @CL

    Hmm. I was attempting to be dismissive rather than supplicative, but as the ‘boring’ jab failed I do see your point.

    It’s a narrow path I walk. I mean to defeat them and hurt them, but I have to keep them around long enough to do that, and not get banned.

    Ally, you may note, hasn’t been back. I do have to wonder if that was because I wasn’t cruel enough.

    As I said, I’m considering your comment carefully … bitch.

  20. “you must have heard about Jennifer’s tangle with TFH at Dalrock’s”

    You mean the same TFH who spoke of all women as trash and whores? If you really think I or any woman is attracted to that, CL, your intelligence is lower than any imagining. Why do you think I finally stopped engaging with the fungus? But then, look at your entanglement with Rigorist, who uses big words and has occasionally looked down at others; we know how you love that. Maybe you’re projecting again. You are obsessed with subjection, even calling any time a woman frames the issue in a debate a subjection of the man; not even discussions escape your visions of rung-banging.

    “What on earth does that mean?”

    It means, lovelies, that it’s the practice of fools to group all members of a sex into one group, and the practice of imbeciles to try and use this as a method of interpreting the Bible. God told wives to respect and husbands to love because women are petty creatures who always misconstrue matters and withhold sex to get their way? LOL Not even Catholics hold extra Scriptures claiming that.

    Mark, have you ever looked at the commandment saying we are to submit to each other? A man to his neighbor? I rest my case.

  21. I love your site and you are right, but I am so sick of people in general, even women, continuously blaming women and defending/excusing men. As generalizing women has become a commonly acceptable thing, I shall also generalize men for asecond. Men and boys have such bitterness toward the female gender with little reason to be for the most part- expecting sex and such then pouting/throwing a tantrum when they dont get it. Feminism helped this happen but I myself as a female did nothing to deserve the hatred my gender gets. when will people wake up and realize feminists of then and now are not holding a gun to the head of every American man and forcing them to succumb to their demands? Nope, men are not perfect either, nor are they helpless. Men need to stand up and be gentlemen regardless if there are any women sitting down as ladies- in fact, that is exactly what a real gentlemen does. some women who are like this do indeed need to quit it, but many of us are not like that and we deserve respect and sympathy as men get too. Nothing’s stopping that but society’s pet hobby of dumping failure and blame onto women, then shouting self righteously when women do exactly that to men.

    anyway, I hope you dont think I’m a feminazi myself- I’m very much against that! I was so pleased to find your blog and was so encouraged by it (I’m 21, a Christian, and possibly a future homemaker BTW). however, I’d just enjoy seeing more posts about men- they also need to know what to do because, again, men arent perfect and they sure arent the only victims here.

  22. Jo,

    you really have no idea why men are so bitter, do you? This “blame” thing is only about hurt feelings to you, eh? It’s all personal?

    Well, no worry. You and yours are in for a generation or two of terrible ‘injustice’. You may be a slow learner, but you’re going to get taught. It’s not going to seem fair to you because you haven’t the capacity for empathy or compassion, yet, but as the years roll by you’ll get the point.

    By the way, you’re a Feminist.

    Now, smile, agree, and apologize. Pledge to improve yourself, and to be ever eager to provide physical evidence of your efforts. Prepare to do that for the rest of your life, or at least the next 40 years.

    God forgive me, I will so enjoy the despair of young Christian women.

  23. I agree with Jo, although women or men both have done their part of mistakes.
    I like your post/article, although I’m not living in US, so I’m not really sure what’s the exact condition of ‘men’ there but as much as I know, If any of opposite species (whether men or women) start showing some patience towards each other and start accepting their responsibilities, things can become a lot more easier. Problem is that many women have start thinking of themselves as ‘man of house’ which is not right but there are also some men who prefer those women who are ‘head strong’ and ‘passionate’ and have a very strong career blah blah (sorry) It’s the HYPOCRISY of BOTH sides which irritates me a lot.
    The thing is that every society needs a good system just like that every house needs a system as well. Man is ‘man of the house’ maybe so many people will disagree with me and will say that I’m wrong a woman can’t be depended on man, but that’s the point. They both are depended on each other, a house can’t become a home unless they both co-operate and work together and bear each other presence as well as respect their opinions,but who will decide that whose opinion is right? Well, that something which I would leave on you and your readers, but the matter that always annoys me is that why they can’t let go of their egos? Of course a healthy relationship do need sacrifices but why is so hard to understand the importance of ‘mutual understanding/sacrifices’ for ‘Typical men’ & ‘Typical women’ ? To be honest out of all these men & women fight the only people who suffers the most are ‘Next generation’

  24. it is much more of the women today that just can’t COMMIT to just only one man anymore like they did years ago, and they were certainly very FAITHFUL too.

  25. Very plainly, the reason why women are more compelled to enter marriage than men is because women have way more of the instinct to reproduce than men do. Women, in general terms, have an innate drive to become mothers. Marriage for women increases the chances of children to succeed and have a balanced (yin yang) upbringing. Men, I don’t think have an innate need to reproduce. Rather, men look to fatherhood in practical terms. Bringing children into the world can increase family prestige, family power, wealth, etc. So for the very politically inclined, raising many children is the way to go. For the farmers and homesteaders, raising many children is the way to go. But for the majority of modern men living in large cities, marriage leading to fathering children just doesn’t make too much sense these days. Especially in the U.S. where people feel very much alienated from their families, there isn’t a lot of pressure to have children like there is in most other countries. So if we’re speaking of ‘modern American men’ living in the cities, then I would say there are various societal reasons as to why marriage and children are becoming much less desired; its more complicated than “women aren’t women anymore.”

  26. Luke,

    There was some question of my grandson’s paternity. I … strongly advised a paternity test. The baby-mama was offended, which was a pleasant thing for me, but my son dithered and refused.

    So after a week or so, we faced each other in my kitchen, and I told him a hard thing.

    We are men. We never know the paternity of our children for ourselves. we always have to rely upon the testimony of others, the mother, some Doctor ( none of whom are pledged to tell the truth, but to do no harm ), the printed results of a test we didn’t do and don’t understand.

    As men, our children are only ours when we say they are. It’s all we’ve got and it’s all we can do. Everything else is just what other people say to us and do to us.

    There was a little doubt as to his own paternity, but he is my son.

    So I told him to make a decision. It was his child. “Done.” I replied. Really. Three years later, we’re in a visitation/custody fight. Our only hope of winning is through duplicity and guile, things my son has no skill at nor will to learn. I grieve the loss of my grandson every time I see him.

    Women absolutely do NOT care about what it is to be a father.

    They become angry when questioned ( “no one is more indignant than the guilty” ), or the pander with sweet desperate assurances that deny the fact that men can’t know. They do anything and everything except understand our situation. They can not bear to walk in our shoes, not a step.

    And now, even to those children we might be a father to, we have no say.

    No, I don’t think women have any small idea how tenuous the thread is between their children and the men they would have support them. I don’t think they can allow themselves to understand the courage of the father and the unearned honor he bestows upon her, the bearer of a child of only testified paternity. She must convince herself she is worthy of it somehow, and that her worthiness can magically alter reality and provide proof that a father can not have.

    Frankly, for those men who face a battle for custody or visitation, I recommend that they turn and walk. Deny the child. There is no real hope he will be a father to it, not if the mother objects. It’s over.

    I won my children, but I am rare. It’s a risky endeavor I can’t recommend.

    If the woman won’t put the child in his arms, make the home around him, and refuse to let him go, then men should just walk away. See the world. Change jobs frequently. Make the best of it. It’s all we get anyway.

  27. Wow! This can be one specific of the extremely useful weblogs We’ve ever turn up around on this subject. Fundamentally Wonderful. I’m furthermore an authority in this matter so i could understand your energy.

  28. I don’t want to get married because women will just take your money and tell you what to do. I’m a simple man. And my simple answer explains the truth to why men don’t want to get married. Oh, and the whole, “I can’t have sex with any other woman for the rest of my life,” scares the shit out of me. It seems biologically wrong to be monogamous.

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